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EddieB Posted: Aug 14, 2016 05:20 PM	CC Spray Foam and Commercial Cannabis Growing Operations Hello, Does anyone here have experience with Spray foaming agricultural/cannabis grow rooms? Let me try to describe the environment, and my questions after. The environment is constantly kept between 72 to 82 degrees, and the humidity should be between 60 to 70%. For a successful crop this has to stay as steady as possible no matter the weather outside. Also, the grow rooms have many heat sources, the main one being 1000w high pressure sodium lights in 5'x5' grids, sometimes these lights whose exterior can reach 170 F are in close proximity to the celing. They burn for 18 hours straight on a daily basis. The grows do have a lot of HVAC, including dehumidifiers, a rule of thumb would be 1 ton of cooling per 50 sqft, which is way over a typical home application. The type of HVAC ranges from forced air, to water chillers, to VRF. Dehumidifiers are needed because the plants are constantly watered and they plants perspire a large amount of that water back into the rooms. Much of the water from the AC and dehumidifiers is reclaimed from condensate lines, sometimes as high as 80% of water used. Keeping the rooms air tight is also a must, in many hydroponic applications no fresh air is ever let into the rooms, and there is a CO2 burner keeping a low 1200 ppm in the room. Typical forms of insulation for build outs would be studs, foam board, vapor barrier, drywall, and either flat white paint or a reflective membrane on top of the drywall. So given the challenges of this environment is CC foam the right choice? How about fire issues? Any problems with humidity and temperature levels being that high on the inside and it being a cold day on the outside? Will we get condensation on the walls and ceiling? Will mold grow on the foam? What vapor barrier sprays would be right for these applications? Specially by the hot lights? Now on to my particular building. A vacant, uninsulated 60'x40' metal building around sacramento, CA. We would love to build some interior walls, and spray foam the walls and ceiling (or roof, or both) and be done with it, but is that a realistic assuption? How many inches of foam would be recommended? I read that for metal buildings, traditional insulation would require a radiant layer, does not having this with foam create heat problems? Slabs are very commonly painted/treated. What would you guys recommend to seal the slab and avoid moisture from there? Would a spray foam quote for a metal building include the sealing of ferrous metal, like I read should be done? Or is that a step most contractors would skip? Would any offgassing effect the plants? Anyone know any contractors with experience in this field? Lastly, I understand Cannabis is a new business and many people for ethical reasons would rather steer clear. I would just say that there are people spraying Commenricial Cannabis grows and that getting information out to those professionals could only help your industry.
EddieB Posted: Aug 14, 2016 05:29 PM	Also, would CC insulation in a metal billing be able to keep temperatures at those steady levels when it's 20 degrees outside? Specially when in some rooms the lights, a very significant heat source, are on for 12 hours and off for 12 hours? Would it be a challenge to keep the temperature up till the end of the night cycle?
EddieB Posted: Aug 14, 2016 05:33 PM	http://www.marijuanaventure.com/innovations-in-grow-room-environment-technology/
mason Posted: Aug 14, 2016 06:57 PM	Eddie, Closed Cell SPF is frequently used in high humidity climate controlled agricultural buildings including mushroom farms. You would need a vapor retarder against the foam to protect it against the high humidity. And since the crop is an agricultural product meant for human consumption, I believe you may require a USDA approved coating over the foam as well as a thermal barrier. (Note, drywall is a code approved thermal barrier so just coat the drywall with a USDA approved coating). SPF should be able to withstand temperatures of 180 degrees F or less, but to be safe the lights should have another insulation that is more high temperature tolerant around it. In order to get the best insulative and air seal value of the foam, you can install the foam in a continuous fashion. Pop a 2 x 4 plate 4-5 inches from the wall ceiling and build a wall & ceiling made of 2 x 4 with the studs flat. Then spray the foam between and behind the flat studs. Trim the foam level with the flat studs, install your vapor retarder and lay your drywall. If you install the foam in a continuous fashion, then 4-5 inches would be sufficient. Note: this is the same method we used in climate controlled "clean" rooms that needed to be air sealed perfectly and required precise temperature control.
jimcoler I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs. I've expanded my knowledge into t Posted: Aug 15, 2016 01:52 AM	I've had experience with spraying grow rooms and I've designed one of the next generation green houses. I now have experience with Grow room lighting for artificial lighting for plant growth, energy efficient dehumidifiers, and solar/Peak load shaving generation. I also know about sealing the concrete floor on bth new and existing and providing reflective surface to the walls and ceiling. This can work fine for Cannabis Growing Operations. Please give me a call and I can spec out the work or give you a quote! I'm also aware of the building codes and how to meet and exceed them. Thanks! Jim Coler 585-733-5686
jimcoler I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs. I've expanded my knowledge into t Posted: Aug 15, 2016 01:52 AM	I've had experience with spraying grow rooms and I've designed one of the next generation green houses. I now have experience with Grow room lighting for artificial lighting for plant growth, energy efficient dehumidifiers, and solar/Peak load shaving generation. I also know about sealing the concrete floor on bth new and existing and providing reflective surface to the walls and ceiling. This can work fine for Cannabis Growing Operations. Please give me a call and I can spec out the work or give you a quote! I'm also aware of the building codes and how to meet and exceed them. Thanks! Jim Coler 585-733-5686
EddieB Posted: Aug 15, 2016 11:25 AM	Gentlemen, thank you for the response. Mason, When you say vapor retarder, do you mean a class I vapor barrier? Or a class II vapor retarder? Also, most spray foam contractors I've talked to seem to think that 2", of foam is plenty and quote about $3 per sqft, seeing as how you recommend 4 to 5 inches, should I be expecting the price to be corolated to thickness, $1.50 per sqft at 1" thickness? I'm in a hot-dry area if that helps. Jim, Expect a call. Thank you both.

Author

Comments

EddieB

Posted: Aug 14, 2016 05:20 PM

CC Spray Foam and Commercial Cannabis Growing Operations

Hello,

Does anyone here have experience with Spray foaming agricultural/cannabis grow rooms?
Let me try to describe the environment, and my questions after.

The environment is constantly kept between 72 to 82 degrees, and the humidity should be between 60 to 70%.
For a successful crop this has to stay as steady as possible no matter the weather outside.

Also, the grow rooms have many heat sources, the main one being 1000w high pressure sodium lights in 5'x5' grids, sometimes these lights whose exterior can reach 170 F are in close proximity to the celing. They burn for 18 hours straight on a daily basis.

The grows do have a lot of HVAC, including dehumidifiers, a rule of thumb would be 1 ton of cooling per 50 sqft, which is way over a typical home application. The type of HVAC ranges from forced air, to water chillers, to VRF.

Dehumidifiers are needed because the plants are constantly watered and they plants perspire a large amount of that water back into the rooms. Much of the water from the AC and dehumidifiers is reclaimed from condensate lines, sometimes as high as 80% of water used.

Keeping the rooms air tight is also a must, in many hydroponic applications no fresh air is ever let into the rooms, and there is a CO2 burner keeping a low 1200 ppm in the room.

Typical forms of insulation for build outs would be studs, foam board, vapor barrier, drywall, and either flat white paint or a reflective membrane on top of the drywall.

So given the challenges of this environment is CC foam the right choice?

How about fire issues?

Any problems with humidity and temperature levels being that high on the inside and it being a cold day on the outside? Will we get condensation on the walls and ceiling?

Will mold grow on the foam?
What vapor barrier sprays would be right for these applications? Specially by the hot lights?

Now on to my particular building. A vacant, uninsulated 60'x40' metal building around sacramento, CA.
We would love to build some interior walls, and spray foam the walls and ceiling (or roof, or both) and be done with it, but is that a realistic assuption?

How many inches of foam would be recommended?

I read that for metal buildings, traditional insulation would require a radiant layer, does not having this with foam create heat problems?

Slabs are very commonly painted/treated. What would you guys recommend to seal the slab and avoid moisture from there?

Would a spray foam quote for a metal building include the sealing of ferrous metal, like I read should be done? Or is that a step most contractors would skip?

Would any offgassing effect the plants?

Anyone know any contractors with experience in this field?

Lastly, I understand Cannabis is a new business and many people for ethical reasons would rather steer clear.
I would just say that there are people spraying Commenricial Cannabis grows and that getting information out to those professionals could only help your industry.

EddieB

Posted: Aug 14, 2016 05:29 PM

Also, would CC insulation in a metal billing be able to keep temperatures at those steady levels when it's 20 degrees outside?
Specially when in some rooms the lights, a very significant heat source, are on for 12 hours and off for 12 hours? Would it be a challenge to keep the temperature up till the end of the night cycle?

EddieB

Posted: Aug 14, 2016 05:33 PM

http://www.marijuanaventure.com/innovations-in-grow-room-environment-technology/

mason

Posted: Aug 14, 2016 06:57 PM

Eddie,

Closed Cell SPF is frequently used in high humidity climate controlled agricultural buildings including mushroom farms. You would need a vapor retarder against the foam to protect it against the high humidity. And since the crop is an agricultural product meant for human consumption, I believe you may require a USDA approved coating over the foam as well as a thermal barrier. (Note, drywall is a code approved thermal barrier so just coat the drywall with a USDA approved coating). SPF should be able to withstand temperatures of 180 degrees F or less, but to be safe the lights should have another insulation that is more high temperature tolerant around it.

In order to get the best insulative and air seal value of the foam, you can install the foam in a continuous fashion. Pop a 2 x 4 plate 4-5 inches from the wall ceiling and build a wall & ceiling made of 2 x 4 with the studs flat. Then spray the foam between and behind the flat studs. Trim the foam level with the flat studs, install your vapor retarder and lay your drywall.

If you install the foam in a continuous fashion, then 4-5 inches would be sufficient.

Note: this is the same method we used in climate controlled "clean" rooms that needed to be air sealed perfectly and required precise temperature control.

jimcoler

I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs.

I've expanded my knowledge into t

Posted: Aug 15, 2016 01:52 AM

I've had experience with spraying grow rooms and I've designed one of the next generation green houses. I now have experience with Grow room lighting for artificial lighting for plant growth, energy efficient dehumidifiers, and solar/Peak load shaving generation. I also know about sealing the concrete floor on bth new and existing and providing reflective surface to the walls and ceiling. This can work fine for Cannabis Growing Operations. Please give me a call and I can spec out the work or give you a quote! I'm also aware of the building codes and how to meet and exceed them.
Thanks!
Jim Coler
585-733-5686

jimcoler

I've expanded my knowledge into t

Posted: Aug 15, 2016 01:52 AM

EddieB

Posted: Aug 15, 2016 11:25 AM

Gentlemen, thank you for the response.

Mason,

When you say vapor retarder, do you mean a class I vapor barrier? Or a class II vapor retarder?

Also, most spray foam contractors I've talked to seem to think that 2", of foam is plenty and quote about $3 per sqft, seeing as how you recommend 4 to 5 inches, should I be expecting the price to be corolated to thickness, $1.50 per sqft at 1" thickness?

I'm in a hot-dry area if that helps.

Jim,

Expect a call.

Thank you both.

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