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Posted: Aug 22, 2007 06:15 PM	Market for foam Mason, Is there anyway to figure out what is going on in my immediate market? I'm interested in knowing a ballpark figure of how much foam is being used in the area and how much competition there is. I have done a lot of homework, been to training, got SPFA certified, researched equipment, etc. The one thing keeping me from entering the business is not knowing what's going in the market. I live in the Charlotte NC. area and in my experience, it's very competitive here for most everything. I'm considering trying to line up work before I buy equipment to see if that flys. I don't mind competition, it's saturation that I don't like. In doing my research I have located quite a few local contractors. So, I assume there is a market for the product here. I'm just wondering if there's already more than enough contractors to go around. I've asked this question to every foam supplier I've come in contact with and still don't have a clue. I need to make a decision one way or the other. I hope you can help. Thank-you
mason Posted: Aug 22, 2007 09:13 PM	I am not aware of a market survey specific to particular regions of the country. I have thought of doing a survey of this type but did not know if there was a market for it. They have a tendency to be fairly pricey. In order to obtain accurate results it requires quite a lot of research.
philip mullins Posted: Aug 23, 2007 11:14 AM	let ur fingers do the walkin. look in the phone book and see how many foamers are listed. then you can call them and iether be honest with ur questions or pretend to be a customer that needs a small job done right away, with no specific time line. narrow it down to a week or two within the next 30 days. if over half of ur local sprayers are kissing ur but to take a small job anytime in the next 30 days, i would say work is slow. not very scientific but, its something.
Posted: Aug 23, 2007 12:41 PM	consider renting some equipment for the first few months. This will give you a great idea of what you can expect without all the money out on gear right away.
Posted: Aug 23, 2007 02:44 PM	How many car dealerships are there in Charlotte? Think that stops another one from building a multi million dollar monument to sell cars in? If you want to be in the foam business and are educated in all the features and benefits, go out and start marketing. Just please be sure you have all your G & A covered in your markups so you don't go broke right off the bat. It is an expensive business when things break (and they will). Now get to foaming something! Kenneth :)
Posted: Aug 23, 2007 08:53 PM	...do not quote work you cant do...just to see who bites,,,this will cause more harm to us all...sometimes it goes beyond the individual... we had a foamer around here who would bid just to work,,,was working for a wage,,,at best,,,he crashed and burned,,,not once but twice...and wasted someones else time, passion and dreams too the second time around...he was quoting work at 1/2 of the market norm...once he was gone... the people were callin like crazy needin their foam work done,,,of course they thought it would be for 1/2 of what we quoted,,,they were angry,,,with captain *********,,,with me,,,with the spray foam industry,,,i mean these folks were bitchin,,their projects were ready to spray and it wasnt gonna get sprayed at the price they thought it would,,,....they still bad mouth foam and foamers up in those parts of the cornfield... dont call me and work me for prices under the disguise (sp?)of just looking for a bid,,,(besides,,you know in about 10 seconds that the person on the phone is a foamer or is useing foam already)grow some fuzz on the nuts,,call and tell me who you are and what you want and if you aint a jerkoff you will get honest answers,,,from me and about any other credible business man out there..'cus as competition,,you wont hurt me,,,in fact,,,more than likely,,you'll help me...(there's strength in numbers...and...when in rome,,do like the romans) this is a service oriented business,,if you do your job well,,,on time,,as bid,,,you will gain a market share... by your statement you have done some research and even gained education and accredidation...this is similar to the path i followed..foamhopper... trust your intuition...follow your heart... work harder than you ever thought you would have to... and you will succeed... our product is real... it is tomorrows technology...here today!! we have the means to reduce our dependancy on foreign oil... we have the means to control our energy consumption,,, no longer can insulation be the cheapest item in the building project,,,(yes,,,even cheaper than the damned driveway)...as the costs of heating/cooling the structure now are only second to the mortgage/interest cost,,while 20 years ago,,,we didnt have to care it was so cheap...the cost ratio of insulation to energy costs was appropriate... cheap = cheap..... halleluja mines the foamy.... halleluja foam on... trust your heart and your intuition... and hold on for the ride of your life... this is so much fun it should be illegal... god bless america! (thanx for the rant,,,damn i feel good,,no harm meant to any,,,thanx for the opportunity for dialoge...its all good,,,its all good)
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Aug 23, 2007 09:41 PM	I absolutely do not recommend furtive comp calls on honest contractors. The fellow who suggested it did so with a disconcerting ease. Gerry C. Wagoner Piqua, OH
Posted: Aug 23, 2007 09:50 PM	I appreciate everyones comments. Especially you foamdude. That was a very honest answer and I appreciate your integrity. Even more I thought foamhopper was pretty darn funny. I've met some of the people here and they've met me. I agree with the honest approach, I might even try it, good idea. If someone were to call me about my business and they didn't sound like a knuckle head I would probably help them too. It's true, two heads are better than one. As obvious as it is, I might not have gone the route of calling people without hearing it here from the dude with the pebble in his hand. Please feel free to comment further as to what YOU would suggest I ask these guys. I'm in a similar business now so I've got some ideas. Thanks foam guys, you too Gerry. Leon Blocksom
philip mullins Posted: Aug 23, 2007 11:29 PM	the guy asked how and i offered the only two ways i know of. more than a couple of my competitors are on this board. and when i called them to do my research i was honest. they may read this comment and remain silent, or they may attest to my tactics. we'll see. i have learned all about the false sales calls cause i get them all the time. i myself, dont give prices over the phone anymore. i need to see the job, or some prints. wether its a swimming pool, a fence, a deck, a foam job, or any of the other services i offer. its up to you how you run ur buisness. of the six i called, only one has been honest with me. and i plan on working with terry more than against him. best way to promote the industry in my area,imho. and i make one more comment with disconcerting ease... some of the guys in this buisness, including one (that i know of) who frequents this forum, when bidding a job you have bid, will offer the customer to do the job for $500 less than what you bid. rather than doing an honest bid himself. dont get me wrong. most in this buisness are honest, hardworking peeps who realize that shortcuts will hurt the industry as a whole in the long run. but, thier are short cuts. and proof of the dishonesty is readily viewable at icynenes website. with that said, it is up to us all how we choose to run our buisnesses, and our lives for that matter. while guys start out very helpfull, and seem friendly and nice. all that may change when they see you as taking bread from thier table. just this morning when i pulled up to a job i was wrapping up in a very nice subdivision (winddance) i caught a competitor red handed stealing tools and supplies off of my trailer. and i did what his momma shoulda done a long time ago and whipped his a$$. to say i suggested anything in my response to the question is putting words in my mouth. i simply answered his question to the best of my ability. we all choose our own path. and in the end, we walk down it alone. and to judge my ethnics from a single paragraph, and then rake me over the coals for it, is foolish! i should thank every one here for the help and guidance i have recieved through this forum, on several occasions. and while some havemade bogus offers, most have been sincere. but, in the world i live in, the realy real world, my buisness doesnt run on friendly and nice. it runs on contracts and money. and that is why we all are here. and for the record, i shave my nuts!
mason Posted: Aug 24, 2007 08:32 AM	Well, since everyone is giving an opinion, here is my two cents. Servicebiz, Please conduct a thorough market research in your specific area, either by hiring a firm to do the work or conducting it yourself. A few suggestions: 1. Contact property management companies, architects, builders, etc in your area and ask them about sprayfoam, its reputation, who installs it, what they typically charge 2. Contact non sprayfoam insulation or roofing contractors and ask them about sprayfoam. From them you can obtain the negative opinions and problem jobs. 3. As suggested by others contact sprayers in your area. Some will not cooperate but others will. Ask them who does the good quality work. Be careful about asking about pricing, it could be considered an anti-trust violation, but you can obtain information about the relative profitability of their business. 4. Put a pencil to the information you obtain and determine if you can make money with the status quo pricing of the sprayfoam market in your area. If the numbers don't look good, then determine how you can distinguish your products and services from the marketplace to get better margins than your competitors. 5. Find a niche market Sometimes it is finding niche opportunities that others have passed by. I knew of one company in San Antonio who made a good living concentrating on metal buildings. They even had billboards advertising their services around the town. They found a niche no one else saw. By being the perceived expert on metal buildings, they cornered the market. Other niche markets include, tanks and vessels, cold storage, agricultural buildings, air barriers, and more. In the early 90s I was hired to manage a roofing and insulation company who had a 6 month backlog of work but was barely breaking even. After a few months, I determined this company did high quality work but bid commodity prices to match their competitors. The low margins did not allow them to make a profit, plus the volume of work prevented them from servicing their customers properly. I instituted a new bid structure, no jobs that made less than $1000 profit per day and started to sell to a higher end market. The higher end market expected more service but were willing to pay more for that service. For example, the company reluctlanty bid on refinery work but never made money on it. Refineries require multiple inspections between each phase that slowed the work down, required safety and health training for each employee, mandatory drug testing every 6 weeks and other time consuming restrictions. Plus they were very picky. Even bidding double the going rate failed to make a profit. So we sat down with them and talked about our problems and their needs. I discovered that time was very important to the refinery, that shutting down a section of the plant to re-insulate tanks or vessles could cost them millions of dollars of production per day. And when they needed work done, they wanted it done right away. Also that all the delays were absolutely neccesary for their protection and to keep the workers safe. So, we made an arrangement to rebid the projects on a cost plus basis, keep a rig at the job site every day (at $1500 a day) kept a crew on standby so if the refinery called we could be there the next day. We just put all the delays and hassle into the bid, did exactly what they wanted and increased the total price per tank from around $7000 to around $40000. The refinery was very happy and we made very good money. Instead of being a pain in the butt, the customer became one of our best. There are dozens of potentially highly profitable jobs like this in most communities. It is your job to find out where they are. Continue to do your homework, it will be worth it.