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Melvin Chandler Posted: Aug 27, 2006 08:31 PM	Open or Closed for residential We hear it from both sides. Closed is the better of the two and then open is the better of the two. When you have a distributor that sells both and recommends closed and a manufacturer that makes both and recommends open, it makes for a hard decision. What I do know is that both are class 1 building materials and can be used but only one has an actual ICC code approval. That says a lot. Some code officials will accept the closed even without an ICC report but they can't really be held accountable. For those contractors that do both, which do you prefer and why? It appears that the closed has the smaller margain of two but is that enough reason to use open?
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Aug 28, 2006 05:24 PM	We like open for cathedrals and attic envelopes. 7" will cover the framing in certain situations. We also like the open cell for spraying the underside of a metal deck. The high expansion of open-cell encapsulates the deck flutes much easier. We like closed-cell for studwalls. Strength and lots of it. It also eliminates the need for a vapor barrier. In the midwest, closed cell is perfect in studwalls because it provides a vapor barrier that is right for all seasons. You can get a lot of R-value in a 2.5" layer and NO TRIMMING! Not much, anyway. Each have their place. In VERY cold weather, some half-pound foams will resist shrink-cracking in studwalls. We have also found some very good rigid foams that resist cold weather cracking. hope that helps, gcw
Melvin Chandler Posted: Sep 15, 2006 10:59 PM	Olger, What I'm struggling with is the fact that I'm having to educate my market. People are suffering from sticker shock but are wanting to know what foam they should use. I think that open cell is sufficient insulation for our climate in KY and TN. We have some cold winters and hot summers. We cool in June, July and Aug and we heat in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb. Sometimes Nov is light and March is a heat month. But were basically 3cool and 4 heat. The rest of the time we could just open our windows and enjoy. I have closed in my house. Only downside is the inside noise staying in. I also wish I had more than 2" in walls and 3" in ceiling. Our energy bills aren't bad but I think they could be better. I have a friend that used open and loves it but he thinks that closed is the better of the two. I have several customers who want to know what's the best. There's a lot of good arguements from the open side and from the closed side. I think both are fine. Have had some closed guys raise the R issue and the water issue but I feel open at 3.5" is enough to create an air barrier and I don't think we are building homes to allow water to come thru the walls so air and water don't appear to be an issue to me but maybe I'm missing the larger picture. Plus, the margins with closed seem to me much lower due to the high cost of the foam. Why should we operate on lower margains for a premium product? Thoughts???

Author

Comments

Melvin Chandler

Posted: Aug 27, 2006 08:31 PM

Open or Closed for residential

We hear it from both sides. Closed is the better of the two and then open is the better of the two. When you have a distributor that sells both and recommends closed and a manufacturer that makes both and recommends open, it makes for a hard decision. What I do know is that both are class 1 building materials and can be used but only one has an actual ICC code approval. That says a lot. Some code officials will accept the closed even without an ICC report but they can't really be held accountable.

For those contractors that do both, which do you prefer and why? It appears that the closed has the smaller margain of two but is that enough reason to use open?

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Aug 28, 2006 05:24 PM

We like open for cathedrals and attic envelopes. 7" will cover the framing in certain situations. We also like the open cell for spraying the underside of a metal deck. The high expansion of open-cell encapsulates the deck flutes much easier.

We like closed-cell for studwalls. Strength and lots of it. It also eliminates the need for a vapor barrier. In the midwest, closed cell is perfect in studwalls because it provides a vapor barrier that is right for all seasons. You can get a lot of R-value in a 2.5" layer and NO TRIMMING! Not much, anyway.

Each have their place.

In VERY cold weather, some half-pound foams will resist shrink-cracking in studwalls. We have also found some very good rigid foams that resist cold weather cracking.

hope that helps,

gcw

Melvin Chandler

Posted: Sep 15, 2006 10:59 PM

Olger,

What I'm struggling with is the fact that I'm having to educate my market. People are suffering from sticker shock but are wanting to know what foam they should use. I think that open cell is sufficient insulation for our climate in KY and TN. We have some cold winters and hot summers. We cool in June, July and Aug and we heat in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb. Sometimes Nov is light and March is a heat month. But were basically 3cool and 4 heat. The rest of the time we could just open our windows and enjoy.

I have closed in my house. Only downside is the inside noise staying in. I also wish I had more than 2" in walls and 3" in ceiling. Our energy bills aren't bad but I think they could be better. I have a friend that used open and loves it but he thinks that closed is the better of the two. I have several customers who want to know what's the best. There's a lot of good arguements from the open side and from the closed side. I think both are fine. Have had some closed guys raise the R issue and the water issue but I feel open at 3.5" is enough to create an air barrier and I don't think we are building homes to allow water to come thru the walls so air and water don't appear to be an issue to me but maybe I'm missing the larger picture.

Plus, the margins with closed seem to me much lower due to the high cost of the foam. Why should we operate on lower margains for a premium product?

Thoughts???

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